Sequence on NNTD
- I've published a large collection of posts here now, but they're more of a holographic collection, less sequency
- from my complice goal review
- > I think it would be very cool to write & post a series of blog posts that work standalone but also together lay out the different perspective of the non-naive trust dance, which I think I could somewhat do as a diff compared to "how I used to think about things"
- thoughts on how to approach this
- I want more examples, and maybe one way to do that would be, rather than focusing on these sorts of abstract statements below, instead start with the sort of question someone might have, then answer that question from an NNTD lens and see which of the main principles/tautologies get involved
- or maybe I even want to start with some real (perhaps anonymized) case studies of people I've worked with
- topics — I want an auto-generated N/M progress bar here
- dream mashups - Everyone is basically living in a dream mashup of their current external situation & old emotional meanings
- hmm re-reading this a bit, as potential excellent candidate for first blogpost showtime, and I'm noticing sort of a few other points that feel like prereqs
- one is everything makes sense, to avoid invalidating of stuff as "just dream mashups"
- another is Instead of "X is Y", say "I can't tell the difference between X & Y", as a way to usefully engage with this bit, from either direction
- this is where it's key to have the validity of projection - it's not about you but it's not not about you
- right, see, the validation is really important
- and it's vital for untangling interpersonal stuff to have people taking a stance of validation towards each other, even when they don't know how to validate some specific content coming up, which this current write-up doesn't understand
- it was written by a me who didn't understand this!
- include stuff about childhood from Watched Visa's vid about this and had some thoughts
- Watched Visa's vid about this and had some thoughts
- main thing is that it's really useful how he references the foundationalness of childhood
- Yeah, super key piece about how your oldest—most foundational—memories are from when you were young & powerless & overwhelmed by everything.
- And even if your childhood is pretty good, there's still a lot of meanings that can get stuck there.
- Also yeah, frames you get from your parents, or your culture. Basic frames of reference that you then use to make sense of all of your experience.
- in the same way that your dreams are often a mashup of the specific things that have happened to you, and when you go to a new place you start having dreams about that, so too are your emotional flashbacks related to your experiences
- and as you have more experiences that build on those original meanings, they get layered even deeper
- choice / commitment doesn't make sense for mindset, where the choice should be obvious and if it's not, you're confused
- may relate to chapman's bit about committing to confused stances - I tweeted him some questions about this June 14th, 2021ish
- I have a piece of writing on this that's near-ready, but I'm just not sure what name to use for the good mindset
- which relates to the need for an introduction to the mindset & cultural platform shift
- stuff about arriving Home together
- meta-protocol concept
- the value & limitations of specific protocols
- tweeted May 21st, 2022
- see bit on this in trust dance moves
- in the meantime also relates to Gall's Law and Neurath's boat I just noticed—a system has to be (in some sense) functional the whole time as it evolves
- there's a lil vid on this, one of my first /100
- use the "they're the same picture" meme
- opening to carnegie HTWF&IP has some extreme examples of this and some other stuff
- ~elaborating on the "A is trying to fuck you up" tweet
- (had a tweetstorm about this + posts in NNY)
- (+notes now in smmo I think)
- could use several good examples, maybe a small one and a big one
- layering - Mark Lippmann's meditation protocol
- if any of yours are panicking, tell them to wait outside the door
- the obstacle is the way as applied to resistance on fractal scales
- relatedly, full-fractal buy-in
- this is... kinda moot? it's too reactionary for a proper blog post, nobody outside LSA even uses the term (or if they do they use it to refer to your product having good word-of-mouth properties)
- (lol years later I'm quite unclear what I meant by this)
- they will in general do so in the apparently-least-helpful way
- Eclectic Spacewalk wants to hear about this one
- this also vibes with the how to stare at a blindspot until it reveals a life insight
- stuff about collaborative handshakes
- I'm thinking about TCP/UDP metaphors or SSL-esque metaphors
- upgrading the bandwidth progressively, not assuming trust
- (although maybe you don't come in assuming very low trust either. you come in with whatever is appropriate-to-context)
- @DefenderOfBasic has a bunch of stuff on this
- (perhaps different from the tone of whining, which is not per se sacred except insofar as everything is sacred)
- apologizing on behalf of the universe
- this would be good to do soon since it jives with PCT
- I did a twitter thread about this sometime June 2021
- relates to post-regret
- see this video:
- I kinda have a vid on this from Sept 2022
- see notes in smmo roam
- otherwise circular argument
- because trustworthiness is not just about some absolute objective thing but about interfacing
- and we need to learn how to interface with each other
- I'm not sure I can properly make the case that this is true, but it seems sort of obvious when I think about the "how we get there" thing
- but also this is a weird headline, because like... who cares about trust-building frameworks
- relates to What's your deal?, BATNAs, and in the meantime
- for now the dream mashups post functions as an okay intro to this
- see some twitter threads
- added much much later
- OH! something super-cool I could do is predefine a bunch of urls for these
- and then I could make it so that for now, malcolmocean.com/full-fractal-buy-in will be a page that redirects to full-fractal buy-in, but then once I actually make a blog post called Full-Fractal Buy-In, that old link will already work for the new page! huh.
- annoyed that roam still doesn't let you link to pages by name
- might want to use mocom/link/full-fractal-buy-in
- or even nonnaivetrust.dance/link/ffbi
9 linked references
October 15th, 2025
- I notice that some things (in eg Sequence on NNTD) when I look at them I feel scared to write about them publicly
- maybe not quite scared, but daunted
- and maybe also that's a sign that I can't just start them by opening them and starting to write
- not with my current skill etc at writing
December 29th, 2021
- and it has me thinking that the Sequence on NNTD etc needs a simple post about the importance of meta-communication
- this is implicitly present in the NNTD - why the name? post re generalized trust, but it could be underscored a lot more I think
September 5th, 2021
- I'm thinking more about my Sequence on NNTD and about this:
- I feel like some of what I'm trying to say would benefit from introduction to the mindset & cultural platform shift post talking about the H2/H3 distinction, but it's extremely slippery and could so easily veer into thinking that rejects other thinking. And there's something very potent about pointing at these general principles as they apply to everyone, not getting fixated on the implications for people at the very leading edge of group coherence stuff. Those people will probably be able to see how this stuff all applies to their work anyway.
- and I had a few ideas:
- 1. make 2-3 separate lists of which topics in the current sequence list require certain context/prereqs
- for instance, these ones are kind of clearly looking at the extreme cases, or are kind of only answering a question that would be posed by people trying to do a whole cultural platform shift
- and commitment/choice is a confused way to relate to stances/mindsets is kind of on that level too
- whereas things like these could be of general interest:
- 2. for each of these pieces, explore writing it up for a few different audiences (I was initially just thinking 2 but I guess there are many)
- me-of-2-3-years-ago
- Jean & LSA specifically
- folks in the outer circle around LSA
- Jordan Hall & other leading edge thinkers
- tcot / non-coercion twitter
- someone who's read most of the rest of my blog posts but no other particular context
- companies trying to do advanced culture stuff
September 4th, 2021
- looking at Sequence on NNTD
- started reviewing an old doc “H3” & “NNTD” as specific protocols & meta-protocols
- it's so good but it's so high context, like I kinda want to share it just internally to the Upstart scene, because it would be hard to parse for people just reading my blog
- there's a whole thing about how to give that context in general for all of what I want to write
- that's part of why the 2020: Free to Dance yearly review post was so good, because it was easy for it to situate everything
- looking at What's the deal doc (another unpublished piece of writing, from August 29th, 2020)
- and this obviously can't be published as is, but has a lot of juicy material on
- I guess that the piece of writing on how my thinking has transcended the Upstart "Commitments & Assumptions", steelmanning them at the same time, would be a really useful context piece for what the culture is pointing at
- both the C&As and the circles maps are CC BY-NC-SA, so I have permission to remix them although whatever I'd be creating would need to also be CC licensed
- man, the circles are so good, but presenting them tends so strongly towards reifying a dualistic H2 vs H3 frame which in turn results in thinking that rejects other thinking
- re-reading The Circles Maps
- hm I want to figure out what to do with "good" & "bad"
- yeah, this is broadly quite good (lol)
- started working a bit on post-blame apology, writing up a sort of blog post draft there
- feeling a bit stuck/bleh/whatever there though
- lemme quickly make sure to note down all thoughts I have briefly though before they're gone
- I'm thinking that a good next showtime might actually be the NNTD pith instructions discussion
- since like the ITD case studies, it's a simple introduction and it's situated and real
August 1st, 2021
- I'm thinking about the Sequence on NNTD and what to write next, and I'm wondering if it might make sense to start with some basics!
- like basically
- what is non-naive trust and why is that important?
- and maybe critique that post of Chloe's that says "assume trust"
- why trust-dancing as a frame?
- a bit about the meta-protocol to make it clear what level this is trying to be on
July 26th, 2021
- operationalizing 100% co-response-ability
- same-sidedness
- it seems to me that this one has something to do with in the meantime / in the limit
- maybe something else?
June 27th, 2021
- working on Sequence on NNTD
May 23rd, 2021
- Okay, I'm trying to figure out what next blogpost showtime to do, as part of my larger project of writing up a whole Sequence on NNTD
- One major candidate is Everyone is basically living in a dream mashup of their current external situation & old emotional meanings
- the version of it I would want to write now... touches on a lot of NNTD-related themes
- the case for publishing it now
- it could be a good chance to give each of those themes a very short treatise
- it's hot, it's got a shelf-life
- the case for waiting to publish it
- then I'll be able to actually cite more of those other themes
- I think I'm concluding I don't want to wait to publish it but that it would be cool to publish it like 5th, and kinda queue up the other posts beforehand
- One open question re the sequence is something like...
- do I want to try writing a piece about where I think we're going? I mean I think that would be cool to write about the NNTD
- I guess the the union of wisdom instead of the union of naivety bit would be about that
- and I'd want to include something about the thing of like assuming we get there, what needed to happen along the way?
- Okay, what are the other posts I would be queuing up? How do I order these? Sequence+standalone is a weird sort of medium
- at least some a lot of the other posts would want to reference the dream mashups one
- I think the validity of projection - it's not about you but it's not not about you is a pretty core one that wants to be written before dream mashups
- I could try making a diagram of all of these... hm
- am I ready to write up the validity of projection - it's not about you but it's not not about you?
- I think I want to post something I've already tweeted
- I don't have a list of threads anywhere, hm
- ahh I have a blindspot feedback is hard (but possible!) thread that could become a #blogpost
- oh, it references collective blindspots, which probably should have a page - collective blindspots naturally occur in groups
- / every entity has a blindspot at all fractal scales
May 22nd, 2021
- Wanting to write a Sequence on NNTD