frame override

> Groups extremely incentivised for belief conformity and actively selecting new members based on predicted ability to brainwash

I'll point out that without knowing much about how things were framed in this specific situation, it's not necessarily nearly as obvious when you're inside the frame of the group as it reads in Zoe's post. A group can have these property in a way that looks totally reasonable from the inside:

- "actively selecting new members based on predicted ability to brainwash" might be framed as "our sort of person" with a "culture fit" who has "strong growth potential" (which is the sort of thing most companies say)

- "incentivised for belief conformity" might be framed as "the importance of group cohesion" or "the necessity of shared models" or simply "truth-seeking"

The power of frames can be hard to fathom; from within a frame some things obviously make sense and from outside the frame those things obviously make no sense at all.

> if a relationship feels 100% safe maybe you’re the threat

> It's fuzzy, but I have some faint idea of a specific style of frame-strength. Some people tend to carry more gravity than others; it's often super subtle (or sometimes not), it's sometimes damaging but sometimes not - but for whatever reason, when their view of reality collides with a lower-gravity frame, theirs "wins."

> I don't mean they win on the object level, I mean their frame 'eats' the other frame, even if the disagreement still exists, or if it's just a preference thing; a super oversimplified example if Strong-Frame Steve thinks a hat is amazing, and Weak-Frame Wendy thinks the hat sucks, then it's more likely that Wendy will come away from the interaction being like "I do think the hat sucks, but maybe my hat-suck view comes out of some deeper judgmentalness in me, I wonder why I can't see how cool the hat is?"

> Whereas Strong Frame Steve won't have a corresponding reaction, *won't* have a subtle check to see if "have I missed how out-of-style this hat is? Is my taste real shallow?" He just.... thinks the hat is cool and moves on.

> I'm real susceptible to it in individuals too; there've been multiple times where I felt drawn in and really trusting of charismatic strong-frame people because of their strong frame, and then when separated from them/their ideas for a while, I go "wait a damn freaking second, I trusted them because of the frame, not cause of the ideas, and I also lost touch with myself somehow in connection with them."

[there's more to the post]

further comments disambiguate: