Malcolm Ocean's roamblog

Daniel Thorson

created 2022-05-17 · edited 2022-05-17 · open in Roam

No content on this page itself — see linked references below.

3 linked references

September 3rd, 2026

February 22nd, 2023

May 17th, 2022

  • call w Daniel Thorson & Trinley Goldenberg - Emerge podcast
    • coercion - adding worse problems beyond the intrinsic
      • tho a Q of: what do you do if/as you're wanting to internalize some intrinsic but easily externalized consequence?
      • (in particular, feeling bad)
    • "I'm not ready" voice
      • goodhart
    • coherence, PCT
    • different schools
    • MattG
      • not philosophical
      • dropped out of college because couldn't make myself do the things I wanted to do
      • tried to make myself do things
      • got into "coercion" concept via twitter/tpot
      • phenomenological
      • self-coercion is fighting against yourself
      • can be useful, almost always wasteful
        • (wasteful compared to what?)
          • (can we talk about efficiency here? 0-100%)
      • reality is going to put up enough resistance
    • noncoercion allows you to integrate all the wisdom you have
      • but it only allows you to integrate all the wisdom you have
      • (hmmmmmmmm)
      • could use coercion to control a system that doesn't have that wisdom even in the limit
    • MG > The Art of Learning book
      • 3 stages
        • flow with no distractions
        • flow incorporating distractions
        • generating flow internally
    • MAPLE
      • theory of change
      • extreme discomfort, so become internally frictionless
        • need for adequate ramps #tosay
          • IPF or something
        • any time you experience friction, it's pointing out a place where you're not there
          • deliberately stirring that up, so they can be worked through through contemplative practice & training
          • MO > potential for retraumatizing if not in zone of proximal development
            • exmaples
        • Soryu > quality of teacher is how high a wall they build
        • goodharting
      • respecting tradition = respecting cultural coherence
        • coherence empathy
        • although it's... not necessarily possible to introspect on this???
          • eg the casava or whatever
      • this tall to ride paradox
        • (ah, I didn't actually convey the 2nd half of it, which is that part of what you're trying to train is self-trust, and the exact people who need to learn self-trust are exactly the people who will guru-fy you)
      • commitment
        • got lay-ordained - for lifetime & trillions of lifetimes
        • precepts, refuges, etc
        • committed to looking at the end of 5 years and asking if the things I'm creating to do the things I want to do, and if at the end of 5 years I don't have that, then I'll commit to relinquishing my direct action on the world, to where I'm
        • considering committing to MAPLE itself
        • the 90% knows that the 10% can only be integrated by facing it
      • #tosay
        • desperation - you can get really desperate but still not know how
          • focus on the knowing, not the desperation
          • desperation can result in creative solutions
          • but empirically eg monetary pressure makes people myopic
          • story from me this morning
            • not knowing how to be in silence