coercion is inefficient
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July 31st, 2024
the ways in which coercion is a necessary solution (at le… › sources › The Conservation of Coercion › > In the absence of trust, every private commercial or so…
- this gestures at coercion is inefficient
- links from Ivan afterwards
- times
- 0:00 intro, background context
- 03:40 can Ivan control Malcolm?
- 0:5:25 professional examples of interpersonal control
- 17:00 traps along the way
- 22:30 depression from stopping coercive motivation without already having joyful motivation
- 27:28 Roman use of "discipline" & "virtue"
- 32:40 how to measure motivational efficiency
- 34:15 coercion has goodhart built-in
- dishes example
- 41:40 jobs you love, jobs you hate
- 52:30 internal conflict causes stuckness & oscillations
- 58:00 pre-coercive culture got outcompeted
- 1:02:50 aiming for a new thing that feels better
- 1:07:45 propaganda against your animal
- 1:12:00 theology: does reality punish/coerce you?
- 1:16:20 early history of science
- 1:19:50 limits of cultural propaganda
- 1:22:00 cultural knowledge greater than individual - secret of our success
- 1:27:40 overcoordinated - overshoulded
- 1:30:00 cultural transition phases
- 1:35:30 research agenda: the shift
- 1:37:45 law of conservation of coercion?
- 1:41:30 our equiv of "drosophilia" for testing
- notes
- examples of control
- employment, salaried employee
- threat of "if you don't do what you're told, you'll be fired or some other terrible consequence"
- military
- other examples
- slavery
- communism
- "more or less coercive equilibria"
- Trinley
- ^22 mins in at 8:35, suggests start time of reco was 8:13
- essay from A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry
- romans use of virtus & disciplina
- virtue - raw energy & courage
- discipline - thing that contains & channels it into [noble] end
- coercion has goodhart built-in
- compromise - halfway between goals, neither satisfied
- planetary scale vibe collapse
- andrew cutler - cultural diffusion
- wolf's conception of the abrahamic god as that which stands in for real reality
- punishment etc
- early history of science
- love - supercoop
- Secret of our Success
- existentialism is a humanism
- "I'm free to do whatever I want"
- cybernetics or computational model of coordination that is too vague in both of our minds for us to really get at the crux of our disagreement
- research agenda:
- can we characterize in a clear way, why it was that the coercive pattern won out over the ancestral vibe-based pattern?
- drosophilia / e coli
- parenting not mattering - maybe because monitoring causes masking
- whereas peers are where you develop naturally
- ---
- "this is what we're doing" is obviously faster than consensus
- but also you can have "someone just says this is what we're doing" without coercion
- you just need trust! but then how do you get trust
- I > if we rotated in other concepts, like "trust", other things get simpler
- externalities