Malcolm Ocean's roamblog

October 1st, 2026

edited 2026-10-01 · open in Roam
  • my threads on twitter Rick & Morty is about emptiness
  • interesting paper on trust/distrust/untrust/mistrust
    • Trust, Untrust, Distrust and Mistrust – An Exploration of the Dark(er) Side
    • > There has been a lot of research and development in the field of computational trust in the past decade. Much of it has acknowledged or claimed that trust is a good thing. We think it’s time to look at the other side of the coin and ask the questions why is it good, what alternatives are there, where do they fit, and is our assumption always correct? We examine the need for an addressing of the concepts of Trust, Mistrust, and Distrust, how they interlink and how they affect what goes on around us and within the systems we create. Finally, we introduce the phenomenon of ‘Untrust,’ which resides in the space between trusting and distrusting. We argue that the time is right, given the maturity and breadth of the field of research in trust, to consider how untrust, distrust and mistrust work, why they can be useful in and of themselves, and where they can shine.
    • re "Computational trust", Claude
      • > The field grew out of multi-agent systems and AI in the 1990s. Stephen Marsh's 1994 PhD thesis, Formalising Trust as a Computational Concept, is usually cited as its founding work. The motivating problem was that once you have autonomous software agents negotiating, trading, routing data, or sharing resources with agents they've never met, each one needs a way to decide whom to cooperate with. Humans handle this with a messy mix of intuition, reputation, and experience. Computational trust tries to make that explicit and calculable.

        In practice this covers things like:

        1. Reputation systems, such as eBay seller ratings and peer-to-peer file-sharing networks deciding which peers to download from.
        2. Trust in distributed systems, such as which nodes in a network to route through or accept data from.
        3. E-commerce trust, which is probably where your slide comes from. The "controls or trust agents" line echoes a strand of that literature asking whether people trust the trading partner itself or the surrounding control mechanisms, like escrow, certificates, and third-party guarantees.
        4. Formal trust models, which assign trust values, update them on evidence, and set thresholds above which an agent will cooperate.

        Those thresholds are where the paper's "untrust" comes in. In Marsh's framework, trust runs on a scale from negative (distrust) through zero to positive. Untrust is the zone where you trust someone positively, but not enough to clear the bar for this particular situation. They might be generally decent, but not decent enough to hand over something this important. The abstract's point is that the field had mostly treated trust as the goal to maximize. Marsh and Dibben argue that the states short of trust, or opposed to it, are informative in their own right, and sometimes the correct stance rather than a failure to reach trust.