Malcolm Ocean's roamblog

November 17th, 2021

edited 2021-11-17 · open in Roam
  • re Twitter as the place you can talk to everyone:
  • ~"rwandan diss of western talk therapy"
  • jamming with Selentelechia re
    • S > was reading "The Good Wives"
      • an overview of what you can infer about puritan / New England colonial settlers, and the women's role
      • and it was interesting the extent to which women didn't want to earn any prestige
      • dignified death = if all people had to say about you was that you were pious and a good wife
      • and it seemed like women weren't directly engaged in the wage economy, insofar as it resembles anything today
      • but they did a lot of mgmt of the household finances, they did a lot of bartering
      • if you had extra of anything, you were expected to go around the neighborhood and trade it, for anything you'd want
      • a lot of women became assistants to their husbands (trades etc)
      • there was a provision in the law, of like, men could deputize their wives to act in their name
        • "yeah, my wife is representing me in business matters"
        • very involved in financial & logistics side of household
      • weren't really expected, even as young man, to strike out on your own
        • would room with other men
      • M > I remember something you posted from that book
      • there's almost no way to allow people to escape pretty nasty situations, without some concept of the individual as an economic unit
        • being able to go out and get their own job
      • M > also applies to kids/teens
        • weird that we call it "emancipation"
        • S > child labor & teen labor are pretty different
        • "adolescence is really awkward for the legal system"
        • S > kids and teenagers aren't full economic participants until adulthood
          • M > seems that by age 12 or so, you should get some more rights
          • S > yeah, like, by age 12, you can open your own bank account and it's yours and your parents can't take it
          • M > weird that it's hard to convert your kid bank account to an adult bank account
            • S > oh that's right
        • M > yeah, the question of whether individuals exist (as economic units), begins in adolescence
          • S > yeah!
          • S > sense of "not really an adult unless you're married"
            • M > mhm!
            • S > applied at least somewhat to men as well
              • although definitely more to women
        • S > once industrial machinery, people who are smaller or weaker (kids/women) can go earn money
          • M > even with farming tho... some stuff?
          • S > yeah, but based on The Good Wives, unclear if that really quite worked
            • especially if tons of babes to take care of
      • S > finances as an individual is weird
        • M > well two income streams is weird too!
        • S > oh true.
      • M > image of a community that has some people playing a more internal role (cooking cleaning) and really enjoying doing that
        • S > yeah, and lots of people, in poly or coparenting situations or similar, would want to do this
        • S > but it's hard to home brew it... you probably would want to consult a lawyer, and most people aren't gonna do that
        • S > I want to read more about charter city projects
        • S > but also chesterton's fence
          • nerds thinking they can reinvent saner systems
        • M > multiperson global wayfinding
          • S > simultaneously feels way too costly
            • but also feels like what most people do most of the time
          • M > I think the basic thesis is that it's possible to rewire your brain so that the automatic stuff is sanity-inducing rather than crazymaking
        • S > feels frustrating more people aren't trying to figure out how to make the unified economic arrangement good
        • M > could write with some likeminded women, something like "the feminist case for Mom as a career"
    • we're collectively struggling to grok how to do power relationships that aren't hierarchical [but not totally autonomous]
      • S > & how do you make the transition between hierarchical and nonhierarchical?
        • because obviously parents have absolute control over babies
          • this can be more or less well-attuned etc
          • but sometimes need to hold baby's legs down to change her diaper
        • (but then obviously at some point a transition to teenagehood & adulthood)
        • S > liability law is almost all case law
          • so there's a lot of stuff that's technically legal except that everyone knows someone could get sued if something goes wrong
  • #2tweet , once the original has settled